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Post by mrtierneyesq on Mar 13, 2007 13:30:31 GMT
Brogan's had alot of rave reviews, which always makes me sceptical! The fact that Pillar never tried him until the last game would tell me either 1. He doesnt really rate him yet but had to try something because we were so bad or 2. Feels he's not ready to throw into mucky, scrappy league games but may feel he has the kind of ability to throw in at Championship on fast pitches Another point about Russell, I feel he is always trying to do the brilliant thing, because he can do it, and sets such high standards, that he makes it very hard for himself, and frustrates his own players who might be well-placed and want a simple ball Another question, will Cooper be back to his best this year? Is Donaghy looking like he's already developing a bit of a Bomber Belly??
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Post by watchdahop on Mar 13, 2007 14:16:50 GMT
Mr Tierney/Rashers I think your question might have been better postponed untill Mossy wins something. But I would answer you like this if September came I would like to see Russell Cooper and Donaghy in our full forward line. I wouldn't take Mossy ahead of Russell. The one facet of the game that Mossy is better than MFR is the frees but we can live with that. MFR is the better player. Mossy is not bad but MFR is a considerable set up from not bad.
You would have to be offering Ronan Clarke Steve McDonald or Stephen O'Neill to be looking at someone to break into our current full forward line....
Will Cooper be back to his best? Hard to say he could really have do with a winter off but it didn't happen. He is still the best score maker in the game he just needs to get his own scoring up. Its also true that he has set such high standards for himself that if drops below them people wonder: he still had a good year last year by "normal standards" but we know theres a few more higher notches on the Goochometer.....
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Mar 13, 2007 16:07:39 GMT
Mr Tierney/Rashers I think your question might have been better postponed untill Mossy wins something. But I would answer you like this if September came I would like to see Russell Cooper and Donaghy in our full forward line. I wouldn't take Mossy ahead of Russell. The one facet of the game that Mossy is better than MFR is the frees but we can live with that. MFR is the better player. Mossy is not bad but MFR is a considerable set up from not bad. You would have to be offering Ronan Clarke Steve McDonald or Stephen O'Neill to be looking at someone to break into our current full forward line.... Will Cooper be back to his best? Hard to say he could really have do with a winter off but it didn't happen. He is still the best score maker in the game he just needs to get his own scoring up. Its also true that he has set such high standards for himself that if drops below them people wonder: he still had a good year last year by "normal standards" but we know theres a few more higher notches on the Goochometer..... As I've said to a few others, can individual players only be judged on whether their team/county is good enough to "win something"? Unfortunately this argument got misplaced by Seamus onto the Kerry-Limerick thread. The logic would mean that Mattie Forde, Dessie Dolan, Paddy Bradley, Declan Browne and many others could not be compared to anyone on a stronger team. Is that all that matters? Sad day for sport if it is
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Post by mickmack on Mar 13, 2007 16:27:40 GMT
Rashers........ being serious ........ apart from kicking two late frees to beat laois in 2005 leinster final........what has mossie done at the highest level when it matters most
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Post by watchdahop on Mar 13, 2007 16:44:44 GMT
As I've said to a few others, can individual players only be judged on whether their team/county is good enough to "win something"? Unfortunately this argument got misplaced by Seamus onto the Kerry-Limerick thread. The logic would mean that Mattie Forde, Dessie Dolan, Paddy Bradley, Declan Browne and many others could not be compared to anyone on a stronger team. Is that all that matters? Sad day for sport if it is[/quote]
The players you mentioned would be more likely to get on the Kerry forward line than Mossie Quinn I think. I think its not a quality thing its a Mossie Quinn thing....
Like wise Ronan Clarke didn't win an All Ireland but he was probably the best forward we faced in 2006. Stephen O'Neill Brian McGuigan. All these guys would be in contention if available to Kerry
I wasn't trying to make the argument that Kerry have the six best forwards in the country.
Mossie Quinn not being able to get into the Kerry full forward line is a sad day for Mossie Quinn not for sport!! ;D
What about Mossie versus Conor Mortimer would that be a better match up?
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Mar 13, 2007 16:50:13 GMT
Rashers........ being serious ........ apart from kicking two late frees to beat laois in 2005 leinster final........what has mossie done at the highest level when it matters most Mick, free-taking aside (I never included it in this discussion, partly because he's not reliable enough with frees), what opportunity has he had to prove himself at the highest level? He played well against Laois in that game, and against Tyrone that year. He played consistently well in the League games throughout. He scored fine goals & points in the Leinster Championships of 05 & 06, at crucial stages of games (in 05 the games were all very tight). Last year, against Laois whilst the game was still in the pot, and similarly against Offaly in the final. Against Mayo he got off to a bad start by missing two easy frees, and like the rest of the forwards, took a while to get into the game. He was playing well in the second half but then the half-backs & midfield stopped getting ball and he got taken off, and most of us feel he shouldnt have
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Mar 13, 2007 16:52:31 GMT
What about MFR in the last 2 years?
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Post by mickmack on Mar 13, 2007 17:27:42 GMT
He bottled it against tyrone in 2005 if i remember correctly
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Mar 13, 2007 18:55:26 GMT
He bottled it against tyrone in 2005 if i remember correctly At what stage and how did he bottle it, you'll have to remind me, and forget about frees. In the second half of the replay he played a stormer. Does MFR and all the Kerry forwards play well & get scores for 70 minutes of every game?
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Mar 13, 2007 19:00:09 GMT
As I've said to a few others, can individual players only be judged on whether their team/county is good enough to "win something"? Unfortunately this argument got misplaced by Seamus onto the Kerry-Limerick thread. The logic would mean that Mattie Forde, Dessie Dolan, Paddy Bradley, Declan Browne and many others could not be compared to anyone on a stronger team. Is that all that matters? Sad day for sport if it is The players you mentioned would be more likely to get on the Kerry forward line than Mossie Quinn I think. I think its not a quality thing its a Mossie Quinn thing.... Like wise Ronan Clarke didn't win an All Ireland but he was probably the best forward we faced in 2006. Stephen O'Neill Brian McGuigan. All these guys would be in contention if available to Kerry I wasn't trying to make the argument that Kerry have the six best forwards in the country. Mossie Quinn not being able to get into the Kerry full forward line is a sad day for Mossie Quinn not for sport!! ;D What about Mossie versus Conor Mortimer would that be a better match up? [/quote] Mortimer has great skill, but not great composure in the white heat. Mossy has more to his game over all, though I grant you, Mortimer kicks points from further out, and is probably a more reliable free-taker. Back to the point though, which you neatly side-stepped; tell me, why would Mossie not be good enough? You havent given any detail, or proper comparison with Kerry forwards
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 13, 2007 19:50:24 GMT
Ronan clarke did win a senior all-ireland as a ninteen year in 2002,he gave seamus plenty of it that day at full forward and played a massive game for Armagh.
gooch got the all star in the corner but they gave young player of the year to clarke,something i could never figure out.
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Post by mickmack on Mar 13, 2007 20:27:27 GMT
He bottled it against tyrone in 2005 if i remember correctly At what stage and how did he bottle it, you'll have to remind me, and forget about frees. In the second half of the replay he played a stormer. Does MFR and all the Kerry forwards play well & get scores for 70 minutes of every game? apologies if my memory is on the blink but................. in the 2005 replay was Mossy taken off after a bit of special attention from ryan mcmenamin? If I am wrong....... sorry
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Post by tadhgeen on Mar 13, 2007 22:22:31 GMT
MFR I don't rate Quinn - never have
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Post by kerryman99 on Mar 13, 2007 23:18:11 GMT
I'm not sure about that. Ok so Cooper is better than anyone we've got, but the others? We need a Galvin, I think Bonner could be that. For Brosnan see Keaney or Jayo or Brogan, all at least as good, Keaney possibly better. We dont have a Donaghy, but Keaney, Mossy, Brogan, Bonner, even Jayo are all good leapers & ball-winners. If Vaughan could get a proper run at it I think we'd have the best all-round forward unit 1) I dont think Bonner could do that. 2) Keaney is still unproven, all 3 are not as good as eoin, brogan is the closest. 3) Even if Vaughan could get a proper, Dublin would not have the best all round forward unit, not by long shot. Brogan is the only Dublin that could make the Kerry forward line. Simple as that.
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Post by mickmack on Mar 14, 2007 8:18:31 GMT
I'm not sure about that. Ok so Cooper is better than anyone we've got, but the others? We need a Galvin, I think Bonner could be that. For Brosnan see Keaney or Jayo or Brogan, all at least as good, Keaney possibly better. We dont have a Donaghy, but Keaney, Mossy, Brogan, Bonner, even Jayo are all good leapers & ball-winners. If Vaughan could get a proper run at it I think we'd have the best all-round forward unit Brogan is the only Dublin that could make the Kerry forward line. Simple as that. Isnt his mother from Listowel.......thats where he brings the football from
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