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Post by mickmack on Feb 23, 2007 16:24:35 GMT
Its all about that day in september! How you arrive there doesnt matter!
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Post by mickmack on Feb 23, 2007 16:26:55 GMT
So Bigmac...............are armagh going to play smart and forget about the ulster champinship?
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dermot
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by dermot on Feb 23, 2007 17:33:08 GMT
Lads, I don't want to sound too cocky but I've got me money on Tyrone doing the double ! We should have our injured players all back and a few other new faces who are as good if not better than many of the last few years' regulars.
Also, we don't have the "canavan's just retired" psychological drain this year ------------ Ah, I love the Gaelic !
I Couldn't care less about Ulster - But that doesn't mean that Mickey Harte and the boys don't ................. Armagh are sure to put in a big year but I aint sure if they have what it takes to go all the way, but it certainly won't be for the lack of trying............. I thought last year was their big chance....sorry bigmac !
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Post by mickmack on Feb 23, 2007 18:16:30 GMT
Will Brian McGuigan make it back?
Tyrone were very impressive in the second half against dublin. Whay young lads are coming through....... the younger cavanagh an mcguigan apart?
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 23, 2007 20:21:21 GMT
Lads, I don't want to sound too cocky but I've got me money on Tyrone doing the double ! We should have our injured players all back and a few other new faces who are as good if not better than many of the last few years' regulars. Also, we don't have the "canavan's just retired" psychological drain this year ------------ Ah, I love the Gaelic ! I Couldn't care less about Ulster - But that doesn't mean that Mickey Harte and the boys don't ................. Armagh are sure to put in a big year but I aint sure if they have what it takes to go all the way, but it certainly won't be for the lack of trying............. I thought last year was their big chance....sorry bigmac ! looks like yere building up for a big year dermot alright. i love the bit of reverse psychology as regards the retirement of yere greatest footballer ever,the one that scored 11 out of 12 points in a losing all-ireland final and had his hand prints all over two winning attempts. i can picture team meetings,all the lads sitting around in a circle on the floor,legs crossed,hands joined and eyes closed,chanting peter never existed,peter never existed,it was all a mirage,peter who,peter who,were all recovered peterholics.
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Feb 23, 2007 20:32:53 GMT
BigM, I would never say "it's ALL about taking part", and I thought I made that clear. However, and this one goes out to Dermot too, it IS VERY MUCH about taking part, and quality of performance. Sometimes you get the "rewards", sometimes you dont, but there's alot more to it than that. Dermot, why dont you care about Ulster? This Tyrone team havent won many Anglo Celts. Do you care about the League? That's sad and a very bad sign of things for GAA, a sign of serious imbalance. I credit & envy Kerry very much for being the most consistent side at many levels over the years, allbeit they dont have anything like the competition at provincial level to contend with that Ulster & Leinster teams have had over most of the years. Yes at the end of the year most of the talk is about Sam(& Liam), but there's a balance too, there has to be, because many counties/teams have little chance of competing at that level. Yes it's right that it's about competition & hard work & preparation & just rewards, but what you seem to be advocating is that "losers" dont matter, and that's just not true. Winning is a drug, COMPETING is an obsession, when you think about it, we are most disappointed when the games are all over, not just because we lost. It's great to win, but it's greater deep down to have been involved, IMO. You can compare to many other things in life
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Post by mickmack on Feb 23, 2007 21:23:40 GMT
Rashers........... in Armaghs situation.............. where they could have won 4 all irelands ............... winning is the only thing.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 23, 2007 22:24:59 GMT
Rashers........... in Armaghs situation.............. where they could have won 4 all irelands ............... winning is the only thing. 4?
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Post by mickmack on Feb 23, 2007 23:12:28 GMT
2001 v galway in quarter final........ GALWAY go on to win Sam 2003 v Tyrone...... Marsdens sending off Tyrone win sam 2004 ........ caught against Fermanagh......... would we have won the final against Armagh 2005 ........ epic against Tyrone......... last point wins it for Tyrone.......... Tyrone win sam 2000....... Armagh could have beaten Kerry who went on to win it 2006 ....... A late Darren o sullivan doal from an armagh mistake cliches it......Kerry win SAM ARRE
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 24, 2007 0:13:16 GMT
lots of ifs and buts that equate to speculation,
you could just as easily say that kerry collasped v armagh in the '02 final,for what ever reason, and that m. fitz and tadgh sat in the stand.thus armagh win it.
i remember an supperb block down winning the '03 final,how many teams have been driven on to win games with 14 men or in dublins case 12 in '83.
galway were suberb in the '01 final as was p. joyce,deserved winners coming back from defeat the previous year.
in '05 the ref robbed tyrone sending off o neil in ulster final in croker,idle speculation,that result might have altered the '05 season,who knows.
armagh were caught fair and square by fermanagh,i was at the game,to say other wise discredits fermanagh fanstastic run,to say armagh would have beaten kerry in what have would be their third final in a row,speculation
00,kerry had the brillant m .fitz.armagh didnt.
'06,kerry had men like dara o se,marc o se,tom o se,s.moynihan and k. donaghy,lads who dug to the depts of their know how,particularly tomas who was emense dispite having a terrible run of form,dug the deepest,kerrys win was totally merited.
its all ifs and buts,bottom line armagh have one all-ireland in the bag,anything else is speculation of the highest order.
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Feb 24, 2007 1:39:39 GMT
lots of ifs and buts that equate to speculation, you could just as easily say that kerry collasped v armagh in the '02 final,for what ever reason, and that m. fitz and tadgh sat in the stand.thus armagh win it. i remember an supperb block down winning the '03 final,how many teams have been driven on to win games with 14 men or in dublins case 12 in '83. galway were suberb in the '01 final as was p. joyce,deserved winners coming back from defeat the previous year. in '05 the ref robbed tyrone sending off o neil in ulster final in croker,idle speculation,that result might have altered the '05 season,who knows. armagh were caught fair and square by fermanagh,i was at the game,to say other wise discredits fermanagh fanstastic run,to say armagh would have beaten kerry in what have would be their third final in a row,speculation 00,kerry had the brillant m .fitz.armagh didnt. '06,kerry had men like dara o se,marc o se,tom o se,s.moynihan and k. donaghy,lads who dug to the depts of their know how,particularly tomas who was emense dispite having a terrible run of form,dug the deepest,kerrys win was totally merited. its all ifs and buts,bottom line armagh have one all-ireland in the bag,anything else is speculation of the highest order. Now that I can relate to - somebody speaking sense! Mick, are you saying that if this Armagh team dont win another Sam, then all else doesnt matter? Maybe what you mean is that it's all that matters right now - well, I agree up to a point, but it's a dangerous frame of mind. A person/team has to appreciate what they have achieved, fully, to have the right state of mind to still/continue to achieve their full potential........in any given situation, at any given time. Otherwise that person/team is playing from fear & desperation. Fear of defeat & somehow believing they are a "complete failure" if they dont win. There's a fine balance between hunger, need & focus & belief/confidence. Once you get desperate, it actually gets harder to reach your potential. Armagh team must not simply believe that they "must win" this year, that it is all that matters. It is a high priority, but the highest priority must always be to do one's best for oneself & one's team, and by that I also mean to approach the whole thing in the right way, a balanced spirit. Beyond that, it's all down to relative ability of players & management, team balance, luck, and fate. That's assuming the top teams have roughly the same level of commitment & hunger, though in any year there is often at least one team with more reason to want it perhaps a little more than others. Currently I would say Mayo & Dublin want it most, then Armagh, Tyrone, Kerry about equal for different reasons that I wont go into now. Cork & Donegal, I wonder about their real level of hunger at this point, aside from whether they have the players or not. I feel Donegal will be happy to win an Ulster, deep down, at the moment, and beating Tyrone or Armagh. In 1995, you could argue that for Dublin even more than Armagh, winning was the only thing, given that that team hadnt won any Sam, and had been so close & lost in so many big games. Yet to many of us, beating Meath in 93,94 & 95 was almost as satisfying as the All-I, as we had no rivalry with Tyrone. If they had lost, I would have said, like for Jimmy White, it just wasnt meant to be, that they had done everything they could, and didnt get the right breaks on the right days. Yes, the one Sam marks them in history as being a successful team, but in hindsight I'd have still seen then as very high-achieving. Of course they won 2-3 Leagues. If we had won Sam without beating a strong Meath on the way, it would have been devalued because they were the main opposition at that time, albeit that all the top Ulster teams were strong, but Tyrone the weakest of them at that time. Ultimately I think many people in sport want to beat their main rivals at least as much as winning trophies, or at least, be competing on a good level. Anyway, I'm getting lost in knots My main point is that the whole "quest" of this "second Sam" is a bit of a hollow thing I feel. What Armagh havent done is beat Tyrone in a championship game in a while. Bit like Kerry
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bigmac
Junior Member
Posts: 87
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Post by bigmac on Feb 26, 2007 12:52:00 GMT
its still to hard to decide how armagh will preform as we still have all the cross lads out but it has to be said that they were less than impressive in the second half against galway and as for not having played/beat tyrone recently........the epic 3 matches in 2005 are still fresh in the memory and last year in the mc kenna cup springs to mind. so rashers if its hollow for armagh quest for a second all ireland what is it for everyone else who desires the same!!!!!!!!!!dublin included
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Post by mrtierneyesq on Feb 26, 2007 13:47:36 GMT
its still to hard to decide how armagh will preform as we still have all the cross lads out but it has to be said that they were less than impressive in the second half against galway and as for not having played/beat tyrone recently........the epic 3 matches in 2005 are still fresh in the memory and last year in the mc kenna cup springs to mind. so rashers if its hollow for armagh quest for a second all ireland what is it for everyone else who desires the same!!!!!!!!!!dublin included Eh? Difference being that this Armagh team has won an All-I
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Post by mickmack on Feb 26, 2007 15:07:06 GMT
I would class this Armagh team to the dublin side of 1990 to 1995. More than one SAM deserved.
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bigmac
Junior Member
Posts: 87
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Post by bigmac on Feb 26, 2007 15:13:19 GMT
unbiased of course i believe the same.jk has brought this team on to levels unknowen and it would be a nice swansong for him to finish on top 1 more time and to go down in the annals of gaa history as being the manager of 1 of the best and toughest sides ever to grace a football pitch
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